Idea Exchange: If CM has made a suggestion, and I disagree, 100% I have gone with her point of view. But certain things are non-negotiable, says Bengal Governor Jagdeep Dhankhar

Jagdeep Dhankhar, Governor, West Bengal

West Bengal Governor Jagdeep Dhankhar addresses questions over boundaries of a governor’s publish and if he’s overstepping them, says his information is the Structure and he’s pressured to step in because of the state of affairs in Bengal, and provides that it’s as much as the Centre to resolve what to do. The session was moderated by Political Editor & Nationwide Bureau Chief Ravish Tiwari.

RAVISH TIWARI: How do you have a look at your journey from a political employee to a constitutional functionary?
A governor is a straightforward punching bag. The second governments of the state and the Centre are from completely different events, it’s simple to make statements, align them with a political ideology or get together. My constitutional limitations are prescribed beneath Article 159. A governor is required to protect, shield and defend the Structure. Second, he has to serve the individuals of the state. I’ve mentioned on quite a few events that I’m not a stakeholder in politics. My core essential and non-compromising concern is that the governance within the state should be in accordance with constitutional prescriptions. A transgression of that isn’t acceptable.

On Might 17, which I name a darkish day in our constitutional democratic historical past, a sitting Chief Minister walked into the CBI workplace, was there for six hours, performed a Cupboard assembly there and advised CBI officers to launch the 4 accused who had been arrested after I accorded consent for prosecution. That is tampering with the essence of the Structure… The CBI workplace was beneath siege. Prohibitory orders had been in drive. The gang swelled. The Central forces had been focused with projectiles. Kolkata Police was simply an onlooker.

I referred to as Kolkata Police Commissioner Soumen Mitra and requested him what was occurring. He mentioned, ‘Sir, Part 144 shouldn’t be implementable.’ How can we digest this? If there are prohibitory orders, they should be enforced… Article 167 talks about informing the Governor. In my 22 months (as West Bengal Governor), in not a single case has this been revered. I don’t want to point out right here the non-public difficulties they create for my workplace.

Essentially the most painful occasion occurred on Might 2. When outcomes (of the state polls) began trickling in, violence was on an incremental trajectory — post-poll, retributive violence. I obtained in contact with the DGP of the state, Kolkata Police Commissioner… I advised them they have to include the violence. The Chief Minister noticed me on Might 3. I questioned her. She took oath on Might 5. You mark what I mentioned that day (on the press convention). By that point, the state of affairs had grow to be very alarming. I advised her, ‘Ma’am, I want you nicely for a 3rd time period. With a mandate that speaks volumes, please take all of the steps (to include the violence within the state).’ I obtained solely silence from her. There have been 4 Cupboard conferences, the problem was not deliberated upon in any of them.

I mentioned that I’ll go to the ballot violence-affected areas. The state authorities mentioned that I can step out of Raj Bhavan solely on a programme given by them. I stepped out. They made no amenities obtainable. I secured them from the Central authorities. What I noticed in Cooch Behar, Nandigram… My tears dried up. Rows and rows of homes had been vandalised, retailers had been looted. The destruction could possibly be seen. 4 states and one Union Territory had gone to the polls. Why did this occur solely in West Bengal?
Once I went to Cooch Behar, three generations of individuals caught my toes. Younger boys had been carrying placards. I don’t wish to sensationlise the problem however they mentioned we belong to a sect and subsequently we’re being persecuted. They mentioned, save our lives. The ladies advised me we’re ready to alter our faith if that may be passport to life… All over the place, I requested three questions: One, why did you not go to the police? The common response was… we’ll stroll into the police station as a sufferer however come out as an accused. Two, did anybody from the federal government come to you? They mentioned none. Three, did any journalist come to you?…

I couldn’t proceed the visits as a result of an entire lockdown was clamped on Might 16. What’s being conveyed to me from all sources, I share it with the federal government. The federal government is simply too fast to name the whole lot faux, together with this post-poll violence. How come 2.3 crore individuals voted in opposition to us! How dare they vote in accordance with their selection! Your complete violence is to punish, self-discipline and deal a last blow to the precise to franchise, and it’s being carried out in full fury.

RAVISH TIWARI: However ought to a governor be making operating commentary on state incidents on a day-to-day foundation?
In Delhi, two narratives are afloat. One, the governor is at loggerheads with the Mamata Banerjee authorities. I take very robust exception to it. All members of the media put themselves in judgmental mode. I don’t imagine in confrontation; I imagine in constructive solutions. I’m not in confrontation with the federal government. The federal government is in confrontation with me, which I’m making an attempt to dilute and rationalise to have a working relationship. Let me offer you situations. If a governor goes to the Meeting after due discover, can the gates be locked? It occurred. Two, if the governor has to deal with the Meeting, ought to he not be the No. 1 speaker. I used to be at No. 6 on Structure Day. If I handle the Meeting, beneath the conventional system, the proceedings are telecast stay. In my case, these had been blacked out. I’ve to nominate vice-chancellors — 20 have been appointed, I do not know about it.

We’re in a state the place governance is much distanced from constitutional prescriptions, the place the paperwork is 100% politicised. They’re frontline political staff… By means of background channels, I’ve tried to motive with each accountable individual of the ruling get together… They are saying we’re helpless. (I requested them) Are you able to talk with the chief? No (they mentioned).

In West Bengal, the silence of the media, the inaction of the nationwide media, is leading to slippage of democracy. It’s straining the democratic cloth to a stage the place it will likely be a problem to its whole historical past… Day by day I get movies of girls and boys, women and men, on the road, on rickshaws, proclaiming on loudspeakers that we made a mistake by voting for the Opposition (in West Bengal polls), we vow by no means to vote for them, please give us a reprieve.

Ship your reporters in the event you don’t imagine me. That is in massive numbers. Two, in the event you belong to a specific phase, you may stay in personal home solely as a tenant. You’ll be able to run your online business solely by paying an extortion payment. Village after village is beneath siege. All of that is being carried out to make sure two issues: to protect vote banks come what could, whilst the price of the Structure being in flames. And two, no area, in any way, must be given to the Opposition… Democracy can not survive if that area is denied by legal components, who’re absolutely supported by the State equipment. What we see is democracy taking its final breath.

AVISHEK G DASTIDAR: However how legitimate is the priority that your workplace is definitely overreaching its mandate within the state?
I’ve not crossed the crimson line even as soon as. However can I be a rubber stamp? Ought to I be a publish workplace? Ought to I be sitting in Raj Bhavan at a time when Bengal is on hearth, when the CBI workplace is beneath siege, when ladies are being molested?

I despatched a communication to the CM that appointment of the DGP must be in accordance with the Supreme Courtroom judgment and that the current DGP has not been appointed as per that mechanism… You constituted a committee for pandemic buy of about `2,000 crore… You mentioned there have been illegalities. I’m asking just for the report. I’ve not obtained it for the final 14 months. For the Andal (airport) venture, about 2,300 acres of land of farmers was taken. The federal government is giving loans, growing its fairness. I solely requested them who’s the beneficiary?… They inform me that tasks (price) `12 lakh crore are being undertaken. I ask them during which a part of West Bengal is it occurring, on which piece of land is that this venture occurring? Governance can’t be so beauty. Governance can’t be on commercials, governance can’t be of a kind the place you aren’t accountable. Accountability of the federal government is the primary requirement in a democracy.

AVISHEK G DASTIDAR: So, what’s the resolution?
I’ve undertaken three issues. I’ve interacted with the Chief Minister extensively. I’ve interacted along with her get together president and senior ministers and bureaucrats. Besides her, nobody can take the decision. I respect their frankness to me that, sure, we’re helpless. I’ve respect for different governors (who don’t touch upon day-to-day actions of the federal government)… However I can say with out concern of contradiction: Maine bohot bardasht kiya hai (I’ve tolerated quite a bit)… I’ll proceed to bear the brunt of it however it will likely be very troublesome for me to not interact in course correction of the federal government.

SWEETY KUMARI: Mamata Banerjee has mentioned that incidents highlighted by BJP leaders is the work of their IT cell. What’s your response to that?
West Bengal has grow to be a laboratory of violence. Has she ever condemned post-poll violence? No. Has she ever gone to any space to provide any succour? No. Has any member of the State equipment gone there? No. Has she assured any compensation? No.

Anjan Bandyopadhyay’s spouse was appointed as advisor (to the state tourism growth board). I’m not in opposition to it. I’m solely telling the federal government, please have a look at the opposite 16,000 individuals (who died as a consequence of Covid-19) too. You can’t prolong patronage as a result of his brother occurred to be chief secretary (Bandyopadhyay, editor of Bengali information channel Zee 24 Ghanta, and brother of Banerjee’s aide Alapan Bandyopadhyay, died in Might following Covid). This isn’t governance…

Ship your reporters, they will provide you with pictures of villages and cities which were destroyed. In such a state of affairs your silence shouldn’t be applicable (I advised the CM). If a majority decides to stay silent at such a essential juncture, I’ve little question it will likely be silent perpetually… The concern quotient within the state of West Bengal is larger than seen beneath any authoritarian or dictatorial authorities.

RAVISH TIWARI: But when the state of affairs is so dangerous, why enchantment to the media, why not ask for Article 356 (president’s rule) for the state?
I believe the idea shouldn’t be factually premised. My media interplay is minimal… I concern the day when the media might be in concern… You’ll be able to take me because the Eklavya of the media, as a result of you may be certain that even when democracy can’t blossom, a minimum of it’s sustained and never throttled or decimated… The concern quotient, the repression, oppression are a lot… See the flight of younger human capital from West Bengal, the place are we? A state so gifted by nature, with many proficient individuals, with a tradition unrivalled on this planet… The place are we? We’re a police state in the mean time.

I’m within the august firm of people that know governance greater than I do. Problems with 356 are by no means to be mentioned, debated or deliberated on a public platform… I don’t imagine in takrav (confrontation), although you would possibly suppose I imagine in it. If the CM has made a suggestion, and I’ve a distinct standpoint, 100% I’ve gone along with her standpoint. However sure issues are non-negotiable, particularly when the constitutional spirit is outraged. There are two varieties of individuals residing in West Bengal immediately. Those that have a sound sleep, they don’t have any concern of the regulation. The regulation enforcement businesses might be of their concern, they are going to be at their beck and name. The opposite class of individuals, I don’t wish to identify them, could have sleepless nights. They are going to be in concern of regulation enforcement businesses. Society is beneath management of rogue components in the mean time.

ATRI MITRA: The Monsoon Session of the Meeting is predicted quickly. Will you discuss post-poll violence in your inaugural speech?
The Chief Minister was apprehensive (in the course of the Funds session in 2020). She thought that the Governor wouldn’t learn the speech given by the state authorities. Once they gave me the speech, I mentioned these are the elements of the speech which I would like you to relook. She was uncertain. So what was carried out? Media was cleared out. Dwell protection was stopped… Suppose the speech earlier than me (this time) is unconstitutional… I’ll have two issues, the speech earlier than me and Article 159 earlier than me and can see at that time of time what must be carried out. But when I get a speech which I disagree with… my job is to not create hurdles for the federal government. My job is to facilitate it. I’m certain as a accountable authorities and Chief Minister with that have, we’ll get to it. However the textual content has not come to me but.

Am I a spokesperson of any political get together? Most individuals who reached out to Raj Bhavan throughout my tenure have been from the Congress and Communist events. The Congress’s Chief of Opposition invited me to his home. I might be completely happy to go to the home of any minister of the TMC authorities in the event that they get permission to ask me.

DIPANKAR GHOSE: You retain saying individuals of Bengal reside in concern. The BJP raised these points persistently in the course of the elections, of individuals residing in concern, of minimize cash, extortion, you too spoke about pre-poll violence. Nonetheless the TMC returned with an enormous mandate. Do you suppose the individuals of Bengal agree with you?
The second the code of conduct got here into drive, I used to be alive to the truth that something I say might need political implications. Scrupulously, I refrained from it… When the size of violence was much less, I appreciated it… in a really low-profile method… However the second it was over, and on Might 2 I discovered that it would get uncontrolled, I stepped in. I’m extraordinarily involved on the stand taken by Mamata Banerjee that until Might 5, it was the Election Fee that had management. Nobody with data of the regulation will subscribe to this. She continued to be CM, with the identical powers, when the mannequin code of conduct was withdrawn on Might 3… No mandate, howsoever emphatic, means that you can throttle, decimate Opposition… No mandate can assist you to self-discipline, punish a voter for voting in opposition to you.

MANOJ C G: In Delhi, you met the NHRC chief after having complained about human rights violations in Bengal. Isn’t it uncommon for a Governor to try this?
Human rights points are very essential for the state of West Bengal. I’m not there to debate these with the NHRC Chairman, they’re his cup of tea. I do know Justice (Arun) Mishra, respect him for lengthy, your entire household was recovering from Covid…

RAJ KAMAL JHA: Given the present stage of mistrust, what’s the approach ahead for Raj Bhavan and the federal government? Say, a ceasefire on each side?
Your query has the reply to all the issues. But it surely takes two sides… I had mentioned this as soon as to Mamataji, we’ve got good communication. She is a really robust communicator, one-to-one… publicly in fact she is a superb orator. I pointedly seemed into her eyes and requested her, ‘Ma’am, are you able to inform me one occasion the place I took a step and also you reacted’. It’s all the time the opposite approach round… I’m pressured to react. As a matter of truth, my response time is calibrated in a fashion that there could be course-correction in between… I’d be very completely happy to enter sleep mode if there could be brainstorming inside… It’s a very good suggestion, a ceasefire, dialogue is the one approach out… There must be a consensual strategy, cooperation, coordination. There can’t be area for confrontation, there could be area for disagreement, for different factors of view… I’m pleading with all sane minds… It’s time for them to make sure that constitutional functionaries, be it the Governor or the CM, take proactive steps so that there’s a assembly floor. I’m ready to be judged very harshly…

RAJ KAMAL JHA: Your predecessor Keshari Nath Tripathi had a distinct equation with the state authorities. What did he let you know while you took cost?
Keshari Nathji suffered by the hands of Ma’am (Banerjee) like by no means earlier than. I used to be fortunate… Simply test what occurred when he went to Asansol after a communal riot… There isn’t a one who has been spared. I’m maybe on the merciful finish…

On Might 29, newspapers had a report that Banerjee had a one-to-one assembly with the PM. There was no such assembly, what occurred was lower than a minute, and within the committee room. I used to be aghast… I checked my report. At 11.16 pm, she despatched me a message and we talked. She mentioned, ‘I can’t attend… as a result of Suvendu Adhikari is there’. I mentioned he’s Chief of the Opposition… I referred to as her the subsequent morning, mentioned you should not boycott, it (the assembly) might be good for us, for the Structure, the rule of regulation, for the state… the place of the PM of the nation can’t be compromised.

RAVISH TIWARI: However do you suppose you’re going past your position?
…The Governor shouldn’t be there to judicially or administratively evaluation a authorities’s choices… that’s their area, why, when, whether or not or whether or not not. I come into the image the second constitutional provisions are decimated. As of date, the size, penalties, psychological stress of violence is shaming democracy.

RAVISH TIWARI: So are you blaming the House Ministry, or Amit Shah, for not appearing in your studies to the Centre?
What I’m telling you, I’ve mentioned with all of the individuals in command. I don’t blame anybody…

LIZ MATHEW: Do you suppose the Governor’s position must be reviewed?
My palms are full in West Bengal, I’ve too many irons within the hearth, those that wish to give it some thought, can accomplish that. Each establishment has to perform as per the Structure.

RAVISH TIWARI: Given the lawlessness you allege in Bengal, do you suppose the courts there are mute spectators to what’s occurring?
Our democracy thrives on separation of powers… it’s the core construction. Each establishment should function inside its personal area, and one will need to have respect for the opposite… I will provide you with an instance… Someday, I obtain data of two ordinances on the identical day… So I’m going to my workplace from my residence… how can I delay it? However the Meeting was in session, and a authorities can not situation an ordinance when that is so… The session had been ‘on’ for 11 months! As a result of in the event that they prorogue it, they’ll’t convene it with out the Governor coming into the image…

SHUBHAJIT ROY: Sainik College, Purulia, has made a number of representations concerning its wants. You might be from a Sainik College too. Would you are taking up the problems of the varsity?
I’ve visited that faculty. The Governor of West Bengal doesn’t have a lot discretionary funds, however nonetheless I gave `11 lakh.